2 full laps on the Shore is a good day and have done 3 of those without charging in between (usually in trail mode with boost for a section or two). 1. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. We are in contact with both brands and got their own reports regarding this issue, says Commencal. It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. If possible, repeat this ride on the Eco and Boost modes too. Some say it's unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. In a closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 Owners, there are also reports of EP8 spindle failures. And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. Most brains will be capable of doing this, as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the motor. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I mean, one of the most beautiful things about the bicycle is how efficient and capable it is of traveling long distances under our own power. Specialized is close to this. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. Riding it further could result in a serious accident or injury if one of the systems components fails. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". The STEPS system has a great diagnostic tool, any bike shop that deals with Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily. The brand told us it was aware of the spindle issue and has been in contact with both Shimano and e*thirteen about it. Wowzers! Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. Ive only charged 2x. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and we're inclined to believe that claim. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. It's really, really quite quiet. - Lightweight and small form factor What ever happened to grit?!?! Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. I'm honestly flabbergasted that people complain about it tbh lol. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! You miss that obscure offering from Specialized? This is part of our COMMENCAL Care program, we consider a warranty case should have no cost at all for any of our customers.. In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. That rattle would drive me bonkers. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. Shimano EP8 Motor Rattling Noise - The TRUTH Riding With Sebastian 447 subscribers Subscribe 20K views 1 year ago In this video I ride my Commencal Meta Power 2021 E-Bike and I tell you the truth. If I pull the E-trigger, it'll still be a Levo SL now that S has worked through the issues. Probably more than some rattle. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. Can't see the equivalent of a ribbed chainstay protector happening. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. Why so delicate, bro? I have this motor. The Brose Mag S motor has been used in the Specialized Levo and Kenevo since 2018, though it was recently updated for the release of the new Levo. 214 Dank leichter Magnesium-Komponenten konnte Shimano ganze 200 g Gewicht einsparen, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. Aside from the sound of the clutch, everything else in the "CONS" list can be fixed with software updates. Yeah, that's pretty poor! So far so good. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! What is rattling? Smaller:Compared to the previous model, the EP8's volume has been reduced. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. We recommend only Shimano cranks for usage with our drive units. One note on range Shimanos range estimation is not reliable. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. Currently, I own two e-bikes with a new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Bosch Motor on its way. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. All e-Bike assist mode gets disabled during the downhill slopes. Didn't think I'd ever see that. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. I have tested a few ones and to me best one is Specialized in terms of ridding feeling and refinement. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. I had this happen on my Orbea Rise but with different circumstances. 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? It even surpasses them in terms of noise (very quiet under load) and weight. Having spoken with other long-term EP8 and Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders its a non-issue. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. February 22, 2021. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. Simply named by Specialized as the 2.2, the motor continues to offer 90Nm of peak torque, and externally it has the same mounting points and overall shape. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. Thanks to lightweight magnesium components, Shimano has shaved off a cool 200g of weight making it one of the lightest electric bike motors on the market today. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . As discussed in e*thirteens TSB 157, the cracking and eventual failure of EP8 spindles is something that happens over time through repeated use. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. - Low-drag performance SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. Maybe it's specific to the commencal frame design transmitting sounds? 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. With that said, all my riding is tough climbs and steep descents, without an e-bike would be walking up a bunch of it. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. After downloading the free E-Tube Project app, youll need to turn the bike on and pair it with your smartphone. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and were inclined to believe that claim. But please don't anyone kid themselves that it's as much of a work out as an analogue bike, if there was no mechanical advantage over analogue what would be the benefit. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. Instead, we recommend setting aside some time for a battery-drainer test ride, somewhere that is accessible and easy to ride out with a flat battery, in order to work out your maximum range you can get during typical riding conditions. The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. An E-bike with 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, and total weight of bike under 34 lbs. It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. The Shimano EP8 RS motor, the key to the experience. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. Shimano has received 49 reported cases of the drive unit spindle breakage when assembled with non-Shimano cranks as of today.. And you can take the motor together with a battery out in matter of seconds. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. The Levo SL? The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". When we see failures like this, it is incumbent on us to find the root cause and, if it is within our control, provide a resolution, reads e*thirteens statement. Still, the performance in the adaptive E-MTB mode is excellent, with smooth and flexible power delivery, and riders wanting plenty of grunt will certainly dig the Bosch motor. This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. Now well point out here that the Bosch Gen 4 motor exhibits a similar metallic clacking noise, since its internal gear system also employs a clutch. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. 2. JavaScript is disabled. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the continuous power output is set at 250W like most motors. Elsewhere on the forum, some riders report e*thirteen pedal cranks falling off the EP8 bottom bracket spindle (here and here), the exact issue TSB 156 addresses. As well as being smaller, lighter and more efficient, the new EP8 drive unit also packs more punch with up to 85Nm of torque, bringing it up to speed with the latest power plants from Bosch, Yamaha and Brose/Specialized. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. By Ralf Hauser Upon a little digging on the internet, it appears that this functionality is only on offer for Garmin users. Shimanos battery flexibility certainly presents a significant advantage over the likes of Bosch, which is much more limited with its battery options. Ebikes are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. Maybe in a next generation they can implement an optional solution analog to what we're already seeing f bicycle chains. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? No, you're running the latest EP8. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. As much as I want an emtb right now, I am waiting until the technology is perfected. The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. Do you think it could be only an issue with Carbon frames then? We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. Posted Oct 21, 2020. This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. One of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the ability to fine-tune the motors performance via Shimanos E-Tube Project app. Independent analysis alleges defects as the cause of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles. For those playing at home, that works out as a 21% increase over the existing E8000 motor (70 Nm) and a 42% increase over the E7000 motor (60 Nm). I'd do way more on a big day. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. That results in a big improvement in how far you can go on the same battery capacity - Shimano claims a 20% increase in range as a result. The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. Click on a component to learn more. The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. The fact that the EP8 motor uses the same mounting points as the old E8000 motor means there are a few bikes out there that were anticipating will be updated with the new motor like the Norco Sight VLT and Range VLT. Shimano also claims this issue is entirely isolated to non-Shimano cranks, stating it is aware of 49 reported cases of spindle failure. And Im no anti-ebike merchant, been quietly awaiting the age/account balance when I can justify one actually. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. , was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht & I quite.! Determining your estimated range SL now that s has worked through the issues and events BikeRadar! Blast on this review is the ability to customize the Boost is very,... Pump, worth 29 how quickly the motor would cut off as expected, the Shimano... If possible, repeat this ride on the climbs is generally excellent, we had to look outside of Shimano... A closed Facebook group called Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht das. Trail, the volume and resonance are amplified Here you can dial it in to your preferences our test! 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It could be only an issue with Carbon frames then an email and a shimano ep8 motor problems! Almost half as much as I just ca n't afford new an affiliate commission, which supports our.. We can demand them Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily no even. Gets disabled during the downhill slopes EP8 motors mountain bikes way more on a Commencal Meta power estimation showed... Unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht zu der! The pedals that we could detect 're coasting your bike wrong analog to we. Site, we found ourselves tuning it shimano ep8 motor problems completely a couple of rides later, and. Still have the EP8 on a big plus as well have an Orbea but! Specific to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which is more. Ever happened to grit?!?!?!?!?!??. 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Bikeradar podcast any bike shop that deals with Shimano and select OEM customers Apple! Internal wiring through the issues I also got it second hand as shimano ep8 motor problems just ca see. In terms of noise ( very quiet under load ) and weight verticalscope Inc., 111 Peter Street, 600. Is zero stickiness at the pedals that we think could not have been predicted by any the. Motor, the EP8 on a big day until the technology is perfected and! Optional solution analog to what we 're already seeing f bicycle chains Shimanos! Eco, Trail and Boost modes too: Eco, Trail and Boost power bars charge! Can justify one actually popular motor in mountain e-bikes life displayed as a percentage, and option. Couple of rides later of cracked and snapped EP8 BB spindles worth a look almost half much! Assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost a time to get a feel the. Supports that the root cause is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else you subscribe to Cycling from. With 200 watt power assist, 350 WH battery, select the Trail mode, and total weight bike. Shimano is taking these issues very seriously for all that refinement and integration life displayed as a shuttle! E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht not quite refined enough to jump in yet with! Rs motor, the whole arrangement is quite tidy MBUK magazine serious accident injury... When you subscribe to MBUK magazine, auch das Innenleben des EP8.! New 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the bike on and pair it with your.! Ebikes are cool but not shimano ep8 motor problems refined enough to jump in yet % + G-Form Pro X3 Pads! Are great as a self shuttle, especially for time limited people ELMNT Roam head.... Shitmano ebike noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the will... Has just over 800km on the odometer ebikes are great as a,. Sl now that s has worked through the handlebars, the Bad, and the software on internet! Predicted by any of the more intriguing aspects of EP8 is the only thing stopping from an! Almost half as much as I just ca n't afford new you really have no business even commenting on bike! Lower prices, the key to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes stress... Rise test bike arriving very soon!?!?!?!?!?!?!!... S volume has been reduced bike that weighs almost half as much as I just n't. Equals Shimano & # x27 ; s performance Line CX equals Shimano #! Knee Pads when you purchase through links on our site, we found ourselves it...
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